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Union Flags and Neil Lennon

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Old Firm games becoming battle to be best loser

By ANDREW SOUTHWICK

ALEX Salmond and Iain Gray are in serious need of a visit from the nurse if they want to be the man left in charge of Scotland on May 6th.

By the looks of it, you would need to be verging on insanity to want to be First Minister just now, and be the one to sort out the country’s sectarian mess.

Has Scottish football always been this bad, or has Sky Sports’ trendy HD channel just begun to show it up for what it really is from every ugly, grotesque angle?

Sunday 24th April. Mercilessly the last Old Firm game of the season.

Of course, the war doesn’t end for too long. We’ve another month of sniping in the press and violence in the streets between rival supporters as the league title race draws to a slow, painful conclusion.

Smug players, who play in sides that would not have got over the halfway line against the majority of the players who’ve graced the shirt before them, will blow the trumpet about how much better they are than the other lot.

We’ll have cries of conspiracies, that Rangers have the Scottish FA in their pocket, that Celtic have scared the referees into giving them decisions.

Whoever the winner is, good sportsmanship from our two combatants is as likely as Tavish Scott getting the keys to Bute House. For although there will eventually be a happy winner, we’ll be left with a sore, bitter loser who won’t accept they were beaten by the better team.

And then of course, after a few months rest bite, we all can look forward to Rangers v Celtic again for the next season’s SPL crown.

For six previous games Scotland, and at times even the world, had shaken its head at the sectarianism and bigotry that blights these morose clashes.

In the lead up to the final installment of seven Old Firm clashes, we were reaching boiling point.

Death threats led way to attempts at taking lives. Whatever you think of Neil Lennon or the others who were targeted, no man or his family should have to go through that.

We were told though that this was the minority, and that the decent fans were ashamed. Sunday was a chance for them to stand together for just one minute and show solidarity.

Celtic fans planned to rise on the 18th minute and applaud Neil Lennon. Had just half of the 40,000 Rangers fans joined in, it would have sent a powerful message to the bigots that they will not win.

That’s all they had to do. In the same way Celtic fans had stood silent on January 2nd for the Ibrox disaster victims, Ibrox could have rose just for a few seconds and joined in the applause. Not to show support to a man they have every right to dislike, but just to show a moment of solidarity with their rivals and show that football is bigger than violence and bigotry.

Unfortunately, the bigots triumphed once again.

Lennon was treated to more abuse, this time only verbal, but again the kind of sickening chants that should be reserved for prison courtyards.

The Celtic manager responded at full-time by cupping his hands around his ears to those screaming abuse at him.

Now, in the cold light of day, it is easy to suggest what Lennon did there was simply fan more flames, stoke more fires that will no doubt prolong the 24 hour police guard he currently lives under.

However, how many of us have been in Neil Lennon’s shoes?

When you have had an attempt made on your life, have had to live in fear, with little option but to face up to it, all rational thinking surely leaves you?

Walking into Ibrox, and having three sides of the ground crow about his ordeal, you can only imagine what he must have been feeling.

His side, whether you feel they were pretty or gritty, fought hard to earn a point that gives Celtic the title edge.

His emotions must have been pulsing through his veins. And anyone who has ever bounced around a terracing hugging your mate just because your team has scored a goal will know that in elation you lose all semblance of respectable behaviour.

As Lennon walked off with the sight of thousands of fans continuing to bay for his blood, how can anyone tell him he should have been calm, kept his head down and walked on?

How can any of us say that when we would never know ourselves until we were in that situation?

As it goes, a simple cupping of the ears was possibly the least offensive gesture he could have made.

Many who were in that situation - the Rangers support shouting abuse at him for example - could have turned round and walked out without the need to spit their bile in the first place. Where was their need to stay and spout their hatred?

Where was their provocation?

And those who complained to the police about Lennon’s response, why was your complaint not about the fans round about you singing in the first place?

Furthermore, where was this same condemnation from Rangers supporters when Nacho Novo was displaying his rear end and putting the middle finger up to Aberdeen fans at Pittodrie? You appreciated the humour then, but not on Sunday it seems.

However Celtic fans, don’t even begin to take the moral high ground, not when many have sung to that same Spaniard that they pray he dies in his sleep. Not when plenty Rangers players and managers have been abused at Celtic Park.

And of course, to add to the terrifying mentality of some fans, we have people offended at small Union Flags being waved. Ironic since some of those who reckoned it was nothing more than provocation happily stand side by side with fans who sing about the IRA.

Singing about the IRA is political they say. The Irish are entitled to sing about their homeland. True, but explain why waving the Union Flag is different?

And this comes from a staunch Scottish Nationalist who would have left his red, white and blue flag on the seat.

However, as it was put to me yesterday, identity is not the problem, intolerance is.

I’ve heard both Rangers and Celtic fans try to distance themselves from the “Old Firm” tag, as if to say one side’s problem has nothing to do with them.

Thing is, to the rest of Scottish football, you’re just two cheeks of the same arse.

   AND of course, what of the forgotten others? Swept aside to make room for the Glasgow twins spat was another significant derby taking place at the weekend.

Raith Rovers travelled to Dunfermline with the First Division title on the line.

With no television coverage, we had a full house, a traditional 3pm kick-off, and a sizzling derby to put the icing on the cake in what has been an enthralling three-way battle for SPL promotion.

However, the Fife rivals saw their party gate-crashed by uninvited guests from Glasgow.

STV’s build-up offered nothing more than a smug look at the cute little derby. They made everyone aware that people from Fife have funny Fife accents. They just about made everyone aware that the two teams were battling for the title.

They compared them both to the all important Old Firm clash, ruffled their hair, and reminded them of their place in Scottish football.

One Sunday paper’s match report was nothing more than a preview of the day’s Ibrox showdown.

No wonder there is a growing demand from fans of the other 40 senior sides to move on without Rangers and Celtic.
They tell us Scottish football would die without them, that we’d be reduced to a backwater league, that the TV companies would leave.

Well, if that means more days like Saturday when two Fife rivals can fill their stadium for a title fight, at a proper kick-off time of 3pm, then sign me up for Armageddon.
 

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Comments

 
-7 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:15
your a bigot, rangers fans have every right to hate lennon why? because he's a catholic or because he is a celtic fan? oh and the songs about the IRA dont have verse's about being knee deep in orange or protestant blood.
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-2 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:19
Neil Lennon isn't going to be liked by everyone, and that has nothing to do with his religion or who he supports, it's his personality.

That doesn't make you a bigot because you dislike someone.
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-12 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:37
it make you a bigot saying things like rangers supporters have the right to hate him. all this hatred has come from lennon stating he wanted to play for a united ireland national team.
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+7 # Guest 2011-04-29 18:04
If you're going to label someone a bigot you need to:-

a) Look up the definition of a bigot
b) Quote the person correctly.
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+16 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:44
Funny, say that to how-many-thousand fans pouring VILE abuse down at him last Sunday?

It doesn't make you a bigot to dislike some-one, but the hate that was roared down at him by QUITE A LOT of Rangers fans on Sunday surpasses a "dislike".

Atrocious!
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+16 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:35
"Thing is, to the rest of Scottish football, you’re just two cheeks of the same arse.
_______________ _________

Please explain that to me? How are we the same?

Rangers; hooliganism, pissing on Catholic monuments abroad, sanctions from UEFA for bigoted singing, Manchester left in a heap, attacking the Villareal(?) team bus, death threats, making jokes about child abuse, hate filled websites...I could go on but you get the idea.

Celtic; sing songs about the Irish War of Independence.

Not only are we not two cheeks of the same arse, we're not even the same species.

O** F*** no more guilt by association.
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-6 # Guest 2011-04-29 18:09
Yes, thats all you do, sing a few songs about Irish independence.

There's no hatred of Rangers at Parkhead.

There's never, ever, been hooliganism involved with Celtic fans.

Sectarianism at Celtic is a myth.

Aye, we all believe you.
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+5 # Guest 2011-04-29 22:14
Nothing wrong with hating Rangers, that's what a rivalry is all about.

What we don't do is hate Protestants, in fact about 15% of our matchday support is thought to be Protestant these days.

Yes we had a problem with sectarianism but it has all but disappeared since the introduction of anti bigotry campaigns. We moved, Rangers stayed still and some might say they have regressed a bit in the last year or two.

As for your hooligan comment, FIFA Fair Play award, that is all.
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+2 # Guest 2011-04-30 02:00
So you had a sectarianism problem, but now it's "all but disappeared."

Excellent. Now tell us what sectarian problems you did have that you've managed to eradicate from your support?

The "hate filled websites" was ironic, you've obviously never heard of the Huddleboard then?

And all these arrests that are made after Old Firm games, they're all Rangers fans of course. No Celtic arrests because like you state, there's no hooliganism or sectarian problems at all.

You're delusional.
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+1 # Guest 2011-04-30 02:35
With respect Brian, Jamie makes some good points.

You're saying Rangers have a hooliganism problem and, I'm guessing, suggesting Celtic don't. However, you had fans charged for rioting at Pittodrie in 2008 - the same year as Rangers in Manchester.

Phil Mac Giolla Bhain in on our podcast slating Celtic fans for sectarian singing. Go on, have a listen, he's on two episodes:- http://theawayend.libsyn.com
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+8 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:47
Regarding your cute little derby in Fife at the weekend. Can you pease explain to the normal balanced non-Fifers of the world, why was the Dunfermline mascot in a cardboard "tank" simulating machine-gunning the opposition fans? Shocking as this may be, the machine-gun soundtrack played over the club's P.A. system isquite possibly the worst thing I have heard come out of Scottish "football" this season. And that, Sir, is really saying something.
This stunt, appears to many as a re-enactment of an actual event. I will not go into details as it is sickening.
This is your idea of family fun? OPen your eyes, Scottish/society is rotten to the core.
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+8 # Guest 2011-04-29 13:49
I disagree with much of what Andrew says, but at least he hasn't closed both eyes.

However can I point out that it is no more bigoted to say nothing about Neil Lennon in the 18th minute of a football game, than it is to sing he was a "wanker" at Hampden by Aberdeen fans a few days before. Once again people term things bigotry when they mean "don't like".

Also to mention that there was no need to spout hatred is true. But unless you say the same about every football ground in the world then the point is moot.

I don't remember cuddles at Celtic Park after Maurice Johnston and Nacho Novo had 24 hour security and Fernando Ricksen received bullets.

Also strange that the news showed the booing at Ibrox for the players entering but have never shown this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6YJe7MM3r4

But to be fair to Andrew he does try to go against stereotypes when it would be easier not to for him. That shows integrity.
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+4 # Guest 2011-04-29 14:45
See this nonsense about Ricksen getting bullets? Is there any proof of this except him talking about it years later?

Surely that would have been big news at the time yet I can't recall ever hearing about it.

Seems a bit too convenient to me.
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+10 # Guest 2011-04-29 16:20
"Surely that would have been big news at the time, yet I can't recall ever hearing about it."

You said it Brian. It's never mentioned.

The fact it was discussed before the bullets were sent to Lennon stops conspiracy theories.

http://thesun.mobi/thescottishsun/sport/spl/3321599/They-sent-me-bullets-and-vowed-Id-be-killed-by-the-IRA.html?mob=1
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-3 # Guest 2011-04-29 22:17
Actually it was discussed before the bombs, not the bullets.

And if a player is sent bullets, how the hell does that stay out of the media?

I call bullshit on that one.

(However I would condemn any moron who done that if it was true)
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+4 # Guest 2011-04-30 12:06
And you're comment is part of the problem we face.
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-4 # Guest 2011-04-30 18:19
Why?!?

Do you not find it strange that it wasn't reported on at the time?

We're hearing about Neil's problems pretty much right away, as is the norm in these situations so why no reporting on this incident at the time?

I think I made myself clear when I said that IF this was true then it is abhorrent, any right minded person would have no problem in condemning mindless individuals who would do such a thing.

However I still need convinced that the story is in fact true. No police reports, no press conferences, no mention in the media at the time. A little strange I'm sure you'll agree.
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+5 # Guest 2011-04-30 02:43
Quoting John Gow:
However can I point out that it is no more bigoted to say nothing about Neil Lennon in the 18th minute of a football game, than it is to sing he was a "wanker" at Hampden by Aberdeen fans a few days before. Once again people term things bigotry when they mean "don't like".


Well you're correct in pointing out the Aberdeen fans singing that. I thought it was bizarre as I didn't recall Lennon doing anything at or before that game to justify it.

However, I never called Rangers fans bigots for not joining in the applause. I called the ones who've stayed behind to scream abuse at him bigots.

Well actually I didn't in the article. I do now though.

Quote:
Also to mention that there was no need to spout hatred is true. But unless you say the same about every football ground in the world then the point is moot.


The point was that complaints were made to the police about Lennon cupping his ears.

He was provoked into responding. The Rangers fans had no need to abuse him in the first place.
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-5 # Guest 2011-04-30 12:28
So people who just boo are bigots? Even actions that happen all over the world and don't even have words are now bigoted? Aberdeen fans singing that Neil Lennon is a "wanker" is just "bizarre", but booing is bigoted?

Sectarian booing! Can I say that again - Sectarian booing!!!

(Because if you mention any bigoted chants you are telling a wee porky-pie. There was none.)

Anyway, I'm away to cut the grass in a sectarian way and make a sectarian cup of tea. I might even sectarian boo an Aberdeen goal (at Pittodrie where no hatred is ever shown).

All the best. :-)
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+6 # Guest 2011-04-30 12:36
Come on John, you're better than this.

It was hardly pantomine booing. I know a few fans with season tickets in the club deck - I've even taken them when they've been free and enjoyed the Old Firm atmosphere from there - and was told how people were running to the front to scream "fenian bastard" at him.

I've also read that there were chants of "What's it like to live in fear."

And all bigotry doesn't have to be sectarianism, you know that.
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+9 # Guest 2011-04-29 15:23
Same old same old same old old firm, when will the rest of scottish football fans wake up. ok celtic have a small problem we have worked on and almost gone but please do not lump us in with these inherently screaming angry f**kwits who we constantly try to disasociate from but are continually joined in with in the press. We are Celtic not OF!!!!!!!!!!!!
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-1 # Guest 2011-04-29 16:59
-Edited by mod-

Ah, you see we don't do personal abuse on this site. Go on, have another go, lets see if you can act like an adult this time

-Edited by mod-
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-13 # Guest 2011-04-29 20:28
A couple of things I disagree with personally.

1) Why should Rangers fans stand for Neil Lennon?

Did Celtic fans stand and applaud Nacho Novo after death threats, or applaud Beasley when his car was firebombed, or even for Willie Collum when he recieved death threats?

I actually had sympathy for Lennon, but I can't hide how much I think the guy is a complete a*se. The parcel bombs have got nothing to do with him being Celtic manager, or catholic for that matter, i.e Martin O'Neil never got that, I respected O'Neil despite being Celtic manager. Lennon has a history within Northern Ireland and the way he conducts himself and his previous as a player, hasn't helped him.

There was no need to go and be an attention seeker on Sunday. It was a decent game of football and a fantastic atmosphere - spoiled by Lennon for trying to grab the headlines as always.

2) You've effectively just called 45,000 Rangers fans 'bigots' for not applauding Neil Lennon.

So does that make Kilmarnock fans 'bigots' for booing said applause during their game with Celtic?

Fair enough for Celtic showing support to Neil Lennon. They deserve credit for that, but I don't think even a Celtic fan would call a Rangers fan a 'bigot' for not applauding Lennon.

3) RE: Nacho Novo at Pittodrie. Yes, I remember Rangers fans going absolutely nuts at Novo for doing what he did - me included, and I was a massive Novo fan. It was a ridiculous thing to do and an absolute embarrassment to himself and the club.

4) I completeley agree RE: the union flag nonsense. I can't believe people in the mainstream press have actually claimed the national flag of the United Kingdom is provocative. Quite embarrassing to be honest.

5) Celtic fans certainly do take a moral high ground. The mentality of Celtic fans is "we're not as bad as you" - which is effectively like Musseolini claiming he wasn't as bad as Hitler.

The media blow things out of proportion as always. Aberdeen fans went rioting in Hull for a pre-season friendly and Hibs casuals attacked Rangers fans at Easter Road injuring a small kid - absolutely ZERO media coverage.

500 Rangers fans from 200,000 in Manchester go on riots - rightly so, highlighted, but then every Rangers fan is considered a hooligan? Worth nothing, there hasn't been a Travel Club member arrested, EVER, on a European away trip.

Rangers' behaviour away from home is scrutinised so much out of proportion. You had the Scottish Sun making up lies that Rangers fans threw TV's out windows in Kaunas - laughable, and confirmed by the Kaunas major who had quotes made up by the Sun.

The "tartan army" piss in streets and continue to hit out with their "anti-English" shite when on away trips.

There are always morons who travel to away matches. Whether that's Rangers fans, Celtic fans or whoever. And there has been incidents before involving Celtic fans which get ZERO media attention.

6) With the greatest of respect to Raith and Dunfermline, their derby is just not a patch on the Old Firm. That's the reality of it.

Credit to both clubs and both fans for creating a fantastic atmosphere at East End Park but it really isn't a patch on an Old Firm derby - especially one which will decide the destination of a title.

7) You've blamed Rangers and Celtic for this lack of coverage between Raith and Dunfermline?

I was at the OF game on Sunday. It was probably the best atmosphere I've been in for an OF match. Great colour, great noise - and I say that from both sets of fans. Penny Arcade at the start was incredible. No bigotry and no sectarian arrests, yet people still try to slate the Old Firm?

It's baffling to be honest.

8) The lack of respect from Non-OF fans towards Rangers and Celtic sums up the country we live in.

Pathetic, narrow-minded, parochial - take your pick.

You have clubs who will raise their game 4 times a season just against Rangers and Celtic.

Anyway, I enjoyed my rant there :)
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+13 # Guest 2011-04-29 22:26
"1) Why should Rangers fans stand for Neil Lennon?"
_______________ _______________ __

Why should Celtic fans stay silent for the 82 seconds, minutes silence for the victims of the Ibrox disaster at the new year derby game?

It's called having good moral conscience Ross.
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+5 # Guest 2011-04-30 02:27
Quoting Ross:
2) You've effectively just called 45,000 Rangers fans 'bigots' for not applauding Neil Lennon.


No I haven't, you've just made that up in order to make a point.

Read the article properly.

Quote:
Aberdeen fans went rioting in Hull for a pre-season friendly - absolutely ZERO media coverage.


Yes, there's a reason for that - they didn't go rioting in Hull.

Unless you wish to provide evidence of course to the contrary?

Quote:
6) With the greatest of respect to Raith and Dunfermline, their derby is just not a patch on the Old Firm. That's the reality of it.


And?

So the derby, and title fight, should be belittled because it's "not a patch on the Old Firm"?

And previews and match reports should include references to the Old Firm for that same reason?

Ridiculous. Open your eyes and realise Scottish football isn't all about two clubs.

Quote:
7) You've blamed Rangers and Celtic for this lack of coverage between Raith and Dunfermline?


No, I blamed the media.

Again, read the article before replying to it.

Quote:
No bigotry and no sectarian arrests, yet people still try to slate the Old Firm?


So thousands of fans screaming abuse at Neil Lennon, even Rangers fans admitting they heard fellow supporters shout "fenian bastard" to Lennon, and you proudly state there was no bigotry?

People offended at the union flag, and you say there's no bigotry?

Quote:
8) The lack of respect from Non-OF fans towards Rangers and Celtic sums up the country we live in.

Pathetic, narrow-minded, parochial - take your pick.


The lack of respect? And how would you describe the enormous lack of respect shown by Old Firm fans to the other 40 clubs, including the dismissive attitude you've just shown to Raith v Dunfermline?

Quote:
You have clubs who will raise their game 4 times a season just against Rangers and Celtic.


All clubs raise their game for the big matches. You'll find Rangers raise their game when they play Celtic and vice versa.

It's not that the other teams don't try every week. It's generally because, in the case of this season, they've spent £6million less than them on their squad. That tends to have an effect on where they place in the table.
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-5 # Guest 2011-05-02 14:57
Quote:
No I haven't, you've just made that up in order to make a point.

Read the article properly.


"Celtic fans planned to rise on the 18th minute and applaud Neil Lennon. Had just half of the 40,000 Rangers fans joined in, it would have sent a powerful message to the bigots that they will not win.

That’s all they had to do. In the same way Celtic fans had stood silent on January 2nd for the Ibrox disaster victims, Ibrox could have rose just for a few seconds and joined in the applause. Not to show support to a man they have every right to dislike, but just to show a moment of solidarity with their rivals and show that football is bigger than violence and bigotry.

Unfortunately, the bigots triumphed once again."

The bigots triumphed again? Who are the bigots? What are they bigots for?

Quote:
Yes, there's a reason for that - they didn't go rioting in Hull.

Unless you wish to provide evidence of course to the contrary?


"Zero media attention" - and your asking for evidence?

Quote:
And?

So the derby, and title fight, should be belittled because it's "not a patch on the Old Firm"?

And previews and match reports should include references to the Old Firm for that same reason?

Ridiculous. Open your eyes and realise Scottish football isn't all about two clubs.


You want to know why it got little coverage? There's your reason. Like it or lump it.

Old Firm derby is the bigger match and caters of the biggest audience.

Quote:
No, I blamed the media.

Again, read the article before replying to it.


"However, the Fife rivals saw their party gate-crashed by uninvited guests from Glasgow."

Yeah, your blaming the media.

Quote:
So thousands of fans screaming abuse at Neil Lennon, even Rangers fans admitting they heard fellow supporters shout "fenian bastard" to Lennon, and you proudly state there was no bigotry?

People offended at the union flag, and you say there's no bigotry?



I proudly state there's no bigotry? I'm telling you a fact there were ZERO sectarian arrests.

Being offended at the Union Jack isn't sectarian, it's not bigoted, it's just absolutely nonsense. We have "journalists" telling us that Rangers fans can't wait a union flag - it's ridiculous. It's an insult to British and Scottish people.

Yet no questions over the Irish flags in the Celtic end - which in no way, am I or anyone should be offended by.

Quote:
The lack of respect? And how would you describe the enormous lack of respect shown by Old Firm fans to the other 40 clubs, including the dismissive attitude you've just shown to Raith v Dunfermline?


I'm not dismissing anything. Why would a Raith v Dunfermline derby get as much media coverage as an Old Firm derby?
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+4 # Guest 2011-05-02 17:48
Quote:
Unfortunately, the bigots triumphed once again."

The bigots triumphed again? Who are the bigots? What are they bigots for?


Again, I told you to read the article properly.

Rangers fans say it is a minority that is bigoted.

Had the decent majority stood up and applauded, that would have sent a message to the minority.

Nowhere in the article did I label, or even suggest, that they were all bigots. I said the bigots won.

You're looking for something that isn't there.

Quote:
Quote:
Yes, there's a reason for that - they didn't go rioting in Hull.

Unless you wish to provide evidence of course to the contrary?


"Zero media attention" - and your asking for evidence?


So how did you find out about it?

And what is the reason for the media, in both England and Scotland, deciding that there should be a blackout on coverage of football violence at a Hull-Aberdeen match?

Seems a little strange, no?

Quote:
Quote:
And?

So the derby, and title fight, should be belittled because it's "not a patch on the Old Firm"?

And previews and match reports should include references to the Old Firm for that same reason?

Ridiculous. Open your eyes and realise Scottish football isn't all about two clubs.


You want to know why it got little coverage? There's your reason. Like it or lump it.

Old Firm derby is the bigger match and caters of the biggest audience.


Again, you've read the article wrong.

I never said the coverage should have been just as big.

I said there was no reason to belittle the coverage that was given to it, and there was no reason to mention the Old Firm in the previews and match reports of Dunfermline-Raith.

I shouldn't have to keep explaining the article to you. I've written it once, yet I'm not even adding anything new to it, just repeating the parts you appear to have missed, or have chosen to ignore.



Quote:

I proudly state there's no bigotry? I'm telling you a fact there were ZERO sectarian arrests.


Just because someone is bigoted or sectarian but isn't arrested for it, doesn't mean they aren't actually bigoted or sectarian.

I've heard evidence from Rangers fans that Neil Lennon was receiving sectarian abuse.

Quote:
Quote:
The lack of respect? And how would you describe the enormous lack of respect shown by Old Firm fans to the other 40 clubs, including the dismissive attitude you've just shown to Raith v Dunfermline?


I'm not dismissing anything. Why would a Raith v Dunfermline derby get as much media coverage as an Old Firm derby?


It seems clear from your comments that any game in Scotland that isn't as big as the Old Firm game isn't worthy of your respect.

That was your quote wasn't it, that the rest of us should show more respect to the Old Firm? That we should all look up to you.

And when there is a big game, ie Dunfermline v Raith for the first division title, it's fair game that the preview and match reports should be a further indulgement of the Old Firm game because it's not as big as the Old Firm game.

And, rather than use our voice to criticise that, we should - by your quote - "like it or lump it".

If this is the future of sports journalism in this country, then it shows exactly why there needs to be a site like The Away End about.
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+2 # Guest 2011-04-30 11:03
The Beasley Myth. The Sun later reported that Beasley was sha**ing a crooks missus while he was in jail. You gers 'fans' should get your facts correct before repeating garbage as 'fact.'
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+3 # Guest 2011-04-30 11:06
car fire-bombed as a warning for being seen out on the town with a hoods missus while he was banged up. stopp chatting lies & inaccuracies
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+5 # Guest 2011-04-29 20:29
Andrew, you have written a fairly well articulated article - on the weight of the evidence you have presented clearly shows Rangers as being the worse aggressor, then you go and completely let yourself down with a totally lazy, I cant be bothered 'you are two cheeks from the same arse' ridiculous, statement.

If you would care to present the evidence of what has happened over the last few years to make you feel this way, I will certainly consider it.

However, based on what you have discussed alone, we are anything but.

You didnt mention that it was Celtic players who have been banned from their manager from going out in Glasgow due to them being attacked so often.

You didnt mention the worlds governing body has issued Celtic fans with an award for being outstanding - but banned Rangers for their own fans behaviour, ranging from attacking the Villareal team bus, to rioting all over Manchester, to sectarian singing on more than 3 occassions.

On the subject of rioting - when have Celtic fans let YOUR country down?

On the contrary, we have helped provide Scotland with such a good reputation, Rangers were allowed to follow with a free reign in Barcelona with no police on the beat - what did they do? trashed the city and urinated everywhere.

What society needs for the greater good, is intelligent people like yourself to step back and open your mind into seeing things as they are.

The Irish fled to Scotland during the famine at a time when there were more anti catholic societies than actual catholics living in the entire country (according to the previous census).

It has never been forced to face up or deal with bigotry - those supremisist undertones are still publicly acclaimed with cries of 'we are the people'..
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-1 # Guest 2011-04-29 20:55
Quoting Danny Paton:
On the subject of rioting - when have Celtic fans let YOUR country down?

On the contrary, we have helped provide Scotland with such a good reputation, Rangers were allowed to follow with a free reign in Barcelona with no police on the beat - what did they do? trashed the city and urinated everywhere.


And Celtic fans in Barcelona?

http://bp3.blogger.com/_ewG4dtKAYgw/R8-3kwt7xwI/AAAAAAAAAIg/m1O8QGYG97k/s1600-h/32zkuww.jpg

http://bp1.blogger.com/_ewG4dtKAYgw/R8vE7-FZklI/AAAAAAAAAHo/PVx0oKmY9Lk/s1600-h/drcs55.jpg

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2008/07/16/celtic-thug-jailed-by-spanish-court-for-barcelona-attacks-to-be-sent-back-to-glasgow-86908-20645435/
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+1 # Guest 2011-04-29 22:24
see you havent provided links to any midemeanors of rangers fans i take it you are an impartial football fan or are you just another bitter person looking to justify a grudge ingrained in you from childhood
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0 # Guest 2011-04-29 22:34
LOL.

A couple of isolated incidents doesn't really prove anything now does it?

You would be hard pushed to find ANY club in the world that didn't have some rockets amongst their support. And considering the large numbers who travel to away games with Celtic, that is quite a feat that those ^ were all you could find.

As for the "sectarian" IRA chants, if those are sectarian then so is the sash and Derry's Walls (both of which I don't think are. Also GSTQ and Flower of Scotland would also have to be deemed sectarian as well as both have verses and/or choruses that talk of rebellion.
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-1 # Guest 2011-04-29 23:34
Quoting Brian:
LOL.

A couple of isolated incidents doesn't really prove anything now does it?

You would be hard pushed to find ANY club in the world that didn't have some rockets amongst their support. And considering the large numbers who travel to away games with Celtic, that is quite a feat that those ^ were all you could find.

As for the "sectarian" IRA chants, if those are sectarian then so is the
sash and Derry's Walls (both of which I don't think are. Also GSTQ and Flower of Scotland would also have to be deemed sectarian as well as both have verses and/or choruses that talk of
rebellion.


It doesn't prove anything.

But you've had your dig at Rangers - now let's look at your own fans.

Nice to throw some hypocrisy as well into the mix. So with Celtic, it is a "few rockets" but when it is Rangers - who travel with thousands more than Celtic - they are all hooligans?
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0 # joe 2011-11-20 17:03
Quoting Guest:
Quoting Brian:
LOL.

A couple of isolated incidents doesn't really prove anything now does it?

You would be hard pushed to find ANY club in the world that didn't have some rockets amongst their support. And considering the large numbers who travel to away games with Celtic, that is quite a feat that those ^ were all you could find.

As for the "sectarian" IRA chants, if those are sectarian then so is the
sash and Derry's Walls (both of which I don't think are. Also GSTQ and Flower of Scotland would also have to be deemed sectarian as well as both have verses and/or choruses that talk of
rebellion.


It doesn't prove anything.

But you've had your dig at Rangers - now let's look at your own fans.

Nice to throw some hypocrisy as well into the mix. So with Celtic, it is a "few rockets" but when it is Rangers - who travel with thousands more than Celtic - they are all hooligans?

aye rangers travel with thousands more than celtic,lol and it was 500 rangers fans that rioted for hours in manchester,that mustve been the bruce lee rangers supporters club,if only 500 did that too manchester it makes the 300 spartans look like big womens blouses
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-1 # Guest 2011-07-21 12:14
Quote:
Andrew, you have written a fairly well articulated article - on the weight of the evidence you have presented clearly shows Rangers as being the worse aggressor, then you go and completely let yourself down with a totally lazy, I cant be bothered 'you are two cheeks from the same arse' ridiculous, statement.

Well articulate maybe but full of inaccuracies and just shows the author to be a Rangers hater.


If you would care to present the evidence of what has happened over the last few years to make you feel this way, I will certainly consider it.

However, based on what you have discussed alone, we are anything but.

You didnt mention that it was Celtic players who have been banned from their manager from going out in Glasgow due to them being attacked so often.

Because, like your ned of a manager, your players cant be trusted to go out and behave liek human beings.

You didnt mention the worlds governing body has issued Celtic fans with an award for being outstanding - but banned Rangers for their own fans behaviour, ranging from attacking the Villareal team bus, to rioting all over Manchester, to sectarian singing on more than 3 occassions.

You's asked for the award and teh pricks at UEFA gave it to you DESPITE having more arrests at one game - Blackburn - than of Rnagers fans at Manchester, depite your continued SECATRAIN singing and support of muderers.

On the subject of rioting - when have Celtic fans let YOUR country down?

Sydeney, Australia, 2nd July 2011 - and not for the first time.

On the contrary, we have helped provide Scotland with such a good reputation, Rangers were allowed to follow with a free reign in Barcelona with no police on the beat - what did they do? trashed the city and urinated everywhere.

Lies! I was there. There waslitter in Placa de Catalunya which was cleared up by 5.30pm -0 I watched them do it. It was no different to Duomo Square in Miland when your mob visited Milan in 2007(?)

What society needs for the greater good, is intelligent people like yourself to step back and open your mind into seeing things as they are.

The Irish fled to Scotland during the famine at a time when there were more anti catholic societies than actual catholics living in the entire country (according to the previous census).

It has never been forced to face up or deal with bigotry - those supremisist undertones are still publicly acclaimed with cries of 'we are the people'..


Like the Roman Catholic, Glasgow football founded by Roman Catholics to keep Roman Catholics from mixing with Protestants?

WATP
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0 # joe 2011-11-20 16:48
celtic were founded to provide funds for "the poor childrens dinner table" this wasnt just for poor catholic kids it was for poor kids full stop,brother walfrid didnt ask or turn away anyone,and they didnt need to go to chapel,it was purely to feed the hungry poor folk irish and scottish,cathol ic and protestant
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+3 # Guest 2011-04-29 22:08
would neil lennon be getting parcel bombs through the post if he wasnt celtic manager? please someone elaberate on why he is such a bad person you's all must know him personally. sick bigotted scotland alway the apologist never the instigator shame on all of us!! 'BUT he doesnt do himself any favours' the phrase use by every apologist out there without the real moral balls to face this countries sick attitude toward ethnically irish (catholic) or is calling youself enthic irish an offence now even though that was a legal requirement to admit to in the recent concesus just past.
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-1 # Guest 2011-04-29 23:30
Quoting mark:
see you havent provided links to any midemeanors of rangers fans i take it you are an impartial football fan or are you just another bitter person looking to justify a grudge ingrained in you from childhood

No grudges.

The guy decided to have an attack on Rangers. It's fairly clear he was a Celtic fan, just thought that was worth putting out there. Maybe you should get your own house in order before attacking others?
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+1 # Guest 2011-04-30 01:15
dont deny i'm a celtic fan still your come back is prety lame cosidering its your 'house' thats under question and not my opinion which is free by the way or are you unable to discuss the facts about the recent consensus. i consider myself scottish, support scotland but have to tick irish on a piece of paper by law is that not wrong?
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0 # Guest 2011-04-30 01:30
Frankly I'm appalled at this article. Its nothing more than opinionated drivel. Incidentally, Ross actually makes a few very good points. Its all very well pointing fingers at Celtic and Rangers, venting your spleen and patting yourself on the back for not supporting those 'bad as each other' lot, but Neil Lennon gets abuse in nearly every ground he plays in. Aiden McGeady did too and so did James McCarthy. Hibs and Aberdeen have hooligan problems. Racist remarks have been punished at several Scottish stadiums. If Celtic and Rangers are two cheeks of the same arse, I guess you fall somewhere in between.
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-2 # Guest 2011-04-30 08:30
First and last visit to this website. What a load of crap. Catering to the diddy teams is fine but get some quality.
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0 # Guest 2011-04-30 09:56
Celtic fans certainly do have a minority particularly away fans who can from time to time cause offence, however to continue to classify both sets of fans as bad as each other is to ignore the vast amount of evidence that is indeed not the case.

Kelvingrove park no music! riot! Manchester no Screen on display, the worst football related riot in Britain in a decade! indeed in the last decade the Ibrox side has appeared in front of EUFA more than any other British club, although the Police and the Scottish Government are witholding from public release the exact details surrounding arrests and trouble at derby games, it is known that Celtic fans and Catholics armore likely to be on the receiving end of assaults or worse, it is also clear the Police fear a Rangers loss in the derby matches as the crime figures across many categories rises dramatically stretching police resources, finally bullets and bombs this season to Politicians, lawyers, football players and football mangers all connected to Celtic F.C not threats actually sent real threats not imagined have certainly in the rest of the worlds eyes put Rangers fans in a category of their own, only in Scotland does the neutral ignore all the facts, sticks his head in the sand with htere as bad as each other? a meangingless statement ignorant of the facts.
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-1 # Guest 2011-04-30 16:40
Certainly most serious assaults or attempted murders and even murders seem to be on Celtic supporters when you look at the facts. Lad in Bridgeton, Kevin McDaid, the lad who got stabbed not far from Celtic Park on Strachans last game when we lost the league to Hearts on the last day.

We are not angels, not by any stretch of the imagination, we're Glaswegians after all, but there is no denying the facts.
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